Venerable Zhen Yen, who founded the Tzu Chi Association, is 62 years old and has always kept a low profile, so even the Tzu Chi-sponsored television station has not had the opportunity to interview her alone. Today she made an exception for the sake of us who came all the way here. We were embarrassed that there was no air-conditioning in the Jingjia, and in order to take care of the effect of the recording we had to turn off the only electric fan as well, and that day, the temperature in Hualien was thirty-five degrees Celsius. And she suffers from a serious heart condition.
Yanglan: The Venerable Master was here when he came out to practice at the beginning, wasn't he?
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: Yes
Venerable Master Zhen Yan, whose common name was Jing Yun, was born in Taichung in a wealthy family, her father died early and her mother was sickly, which made the young girl full of confusion about life, and by the pain of her family she thought of the suffering of all living beings, and finally, one day in the late summer/early fall of 1961 when she was cutting rice in the field together with a few monks a Venerable Master asked her "Want to go, right now." She put down her scythe and thus became a monk.
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: People are often moved, moved will have an impulse, this kind of starting thought, think that say, a person exists on earth in the end why live, suddenly will think of their own father, a good person suddenly he had a stroke, suddenly passed away, it is really very impermanent. This kind of impermanence makes me realize what kind of value one has to live for in this world. So, in the field, suddenly I would have this thought that it would be better to pursue the question than to act on it myself. So it would suddenly drop and go.
Yang Lan: I think that at first, when I wanted to go to a monk, to practice, I was actually holding a thought of leaving the mundane world.
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: But it's strange why I threw myself into the red world again.
Yanlan: Yes, originally it was to go out of the world, and then how did you end up in the world again, how did you think about this transformation?
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: I just said, I want to live out the value of life, so I think, a person in the family is only for the family, a great life is just for a family, for a self, it's not worth it. That's why I left my family.
Yanglan: Then why must you become a monk?
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: I think it's just that there's no more hang-ups when you leave home.
Yang Lan: You never saw your mother again?
Dharma Master Zhen Yan: Yes, now my mother is my commissioner.
Yang Lan: Does this have something to do with your teacher at the time, Master Ying Shun's philosophy of "Buddhism on earth...Buddhism in life, bodhisattvas on earth"? I read a story that you were visited by Catholic nuns who raised some objections to the Buddhist way of life, and they told you that they felt that Buddhists paid too much attention to their own practice and didn't care more about the suffering people in the world, what kind of feeling did that give you?
Venerable Cheng Yen: The purpose of religion should be love, the love of God, or the love of Christianity. I am likewise very devoted to the Dharma, and as long as there is love in my heart, I will admire it. The three nuns, they were also very loving, they saw such a practitioner, alone in the hut she seemed to pity me, so she wanted to come and convince me to join the nuns, and likewise to become a monk. But with each other, the conversations were all very much in tune with each other.
So this love is blended together, only in a different religious name. Because of such a relationship, the Venerable Master Zhen Yen also had great respect for religions other than Buddhism, and in the hospital that she later raised funds to build also granted amnesty for Catholic prayers, so that patients of different faiths could be facilitated. Rather than being a religious organization, Tzu Chi is more like a social charity, and Venerable Cheng Yen's inspiration is more like a social moral force. While many temples used huge sums of money for big pujas, Venerable Zhen Yen maintained three principles, "No chanting for people, no pujas, and no money." To this day her disciples still support themselves by making candles and farming. She has invested more money in hospitals, not only because of her master's teachings on "the humanization of Buddhism," but also because of an encounter in 1966.
Disciple of Venerable Master Zhen Yen: Because I saw a woman miscarrying over there, bleeding for eight hours, walking for eight hours, that is to say, eight thousand dollars, to be quickly transfused, and quickly operated on, so I saw this situation, she said that because of the lack of eight thousand dollars to carry the woman away. Therefore, when she came back, she was very sad in her heart, she said that a woman was going to give birth, in order not to have 8,000 dollars, now in the end two lives or death do not know, so in this case she did not consider, whether our own life is able to maintain, she said that we have to do the work that should be done, so the spiritual perseverance of the Lord is like this, she did not do it for herself, she saw the difficulties, she put the matter to solve it first before saying it later. Her principle is that we have to be self-reliant. She said that if we young people are capable of doing things on our own, we should do it on our own. She encouraged us to say, "We have become monks," that our bodies and minds are dedicated to religion, and that we should really do things for Buddhism and for the public, and that we should sharpen our spirit and endurance, and that we can suffer what others can't, and endure what others can't. The hardest time was when we had to fight with others. The hardest time was when I was earning wages by making woolen clothes with other people. There were seven people in the group and they were paid only once every half month. So there was often no oil, no rice, we grew our own vegetables, and when there were no vegetables, we plucked some wild vegetables. At that time, we were really poor, so poor that we could only buy 50 cents of tofu a month, so we had to cut the tofu into small pieces, put it into salt to pickle, pickle it salty, wait until the rainy days when there is no way to pull the wild vegetables to eat the salty tofu, so I often laugh that 50 cents of salty tofu can be eaten for a month.
This is a poor situation, but Venerable Cheng Yen declined a donation of 200 million dollars, why? The initial donation to the Tzu Chi Benevolent Association came from local housewives in Hualien, who each saved 50 cents a day, and some people said that each person could simply pay 15 dollars a month. But Venerable Cheng Yen said, "It makes a big difference.
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: A month of fifteen dollars I would say that it is only once a month to start a good heart, want to help people only once a month, love is to be cultivated every day, but also to be cultivated all the time, before you go out, you have to start a good heart, cultivate such a thought of love. So I want them to be 50 cents a day, not 15 dollars a month.
Yang Lan: I think at the beginning of the Tzu Chi Hospital is probably based on the same idea you refused, there is a Japanese people want to donate you almost 200 million dollars, so a large sum of money, at that time, you are in need of almost eight hundred million dollars of Taiwan dollars, but you only collected about thirty million dollars at that time. I should say that the 200 million dollars came in time. The same reasoning applies?
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: Yes, but also very grateful, I am looking forward to, there are so many Buddhists in Taiwan, and not only Buddhists, it can be said that there are a lot of loving people, in Taiwan to build this hospital should be everyone can little by little to this love convergence, their own reclamation of an acre of blessed land, I hope that every one of them will come to be a farmer. I hope that I will be more intimate with this blessed field.
Yang Lan: Later, the charity fund became bigger and bigger, and many of the members of Tzu Chi are industrialists and businessmen, who are very experienced in managing the fund. For example, some people have suggested to you that we can develop some real estate near the hospital, and then use the money to invest in the better operation of the fund, but you have rejected such an idea, and you insist on asking everyone to raise money. person to solicit donations, for the same reason?
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: Yes, it is also expected that the love given by each and every one of us should not be omitted, and let it bear fruit quickly. And take it from the society and use it for the society.
Yanglan: I think, after the seventies in Taiwan, the economy took off, people in the material life has been improved, suddenly found their spiritual life is very empty, in your place they also find a lot of emotional support, spiritual support, and to find that between people and people should be originally very innocent to help each other emotionally, so there are people who say that you are specialized in treating the
Venerable Zheng Yan: What a joke.
Yang Lan: But in the middle do you come across a situation where you say we have been in a society of material exchange for a long time, and so we also bring these wishes to the Buddhist temple. For example, when people come to pray, the first thing they think is "Buddha bless me to make more money." Or...of course there are also prayers for health, or to donate money always want to leave a name, or to get a kind of support in their heart...what do you think about their wishes like that?
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: Didn't I just say that? Tzu Chi from the beginning until now no such people want to come here. What to worship, beg for anything, no. Everyone is thought to say is a spiritual support, is there. Because he feels happy to do it. And some of our Tzu-Chi people, all the Tzu-Chi people, when they give, they say they are thankful, they are thankful, they are thankful for the suffering of the other person, so that they can enrich themselves more, and understand more that they are more blessed than other people, and so they will have that kind of...very joyful for themselves. Give and be thankful, so they don't have a request here to say, "Buddha come and bless me," no, they are all in the mindset of giving and not asking for anything, but at the same time being thankful.
Tzu Chi Hospital, which was officially inaugurated in 1986, is not only equipped with first-class medical facilities and professionals, but also strives to create an intimate relationship between doctors and patients.
Yang Lan: The hospital has a large number of volunteers, or voluntary workers, many of whom are usually bosses or senior executives from all over Taiwan, and fly to Hualien on weekends to take care of the patients in the hospital, and during the summer vacation university and high school students come here, and Ms. Yen Hui-mei, who has participated in Tzu Chi for eighteen years, is in charge of arranging jobs for them.
Yanglan: You come into contact with so many very young children, sometimes high school students, and when they come here to volunteer, what kind of things do you think you need to let them know that they are generally ignored in the outside world?
Yan Huimei: Nowadays, the most neglected thing is ethics and morality, because young people feel very arrogant, they want to say "what's the harm in being happy", so they don't know to say to our elders, even the elderly, that the hard work of those elderly people is to maintain our families, to take care of our homes. He thinks that there are elderly people, so what is the point of doing something for you. So when they come to the hospital and see the lonely old people, they naturally shave for them, wash their hair, and wash their feet, so in the midst of such actions, it dawns on him, "Why would I be so happy to wash an old man for whom I have no connection, and why don't I say hello to my grandpa and grandma, who live upstairs and downstairs with me? " I even think, "When I'm tired and I come home, I have to go upstairs to lie down and rest, and I have to talk to my grandpa and grandma about everything." So naturally he knew he was wrong.
Refusing to play God, Venerable Witness Yen said, "I don't have any magic."
Women have played an important role in the development of Tzu Chi. Tzu Chi members are predominantly women over the age of 40, and after joining Tzu Chi, these women not only find spiritual fulfillment in helping others, but also find the support of a group with strong moral force. This has improved their status in the family, and their husbands have also been recommended by their wives to participate in charitable activities.
Commissioner Tzu Chi: I think the biggest change is that there is a ****understanding between me and my husband, and then there is ****the same topic, ****the same idea, to be able to help the sentient beings who are asking for help, that's the biggest change. In the past, Mr. Yang would come home and talk about his career, his children, or the problems between friends, but now we have the same **** topic of Tzu Chi.
Yanglan: In the past, would you argue?
Commissioner Tzu Chi: It wasn't a fight, it was just a little bit of an argument, he had more socializing and would drink. Now he drinks a lot less too, because there are still socializing, but he smokes a lot, lot less too. He likes to do things like this so that he can relieve a lot of his stress, because the master taught us to be a person with our hands down, and that person with his hands down will get a lot of joy.
Yanlan: Do you feel this position or influence in the family more now?
Commissioner Tzu Chi: I feel I have more wisdom to deal with many things.
Today, Venerable Witness Yen is the object of many people's followers and admirers, with some even hugging their children and asking her to touch their heads to dispel calamities and illnesses. For her part, Zhen Yan smiles and says, "If I were so capable I wouldn't have to build hospitals."
Venerable Witness Yen: My routine is very simple, I get up at three o'clock or so, start to meditate and rationalize myself, and then I have to go out and talk. Before dawn you start to have your morning speech, your class. And then the day starts until late, and I don't know what I'm going to say about how I'm going to get through the whole day.
Yanlan: There are a lot of decisions that need to be made on your end anyway. After getting bigger and bigger, we found that you had a move that you left all these hospitals and schools in the hands of professionals, rather than saying you're going to manage all these management details, and that was a very clear idea for you at the very beginning.
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: Because I'm a layman myself, I don't really have the ability to do it myself, and then again, hospitals are meant to be handed over to physicians to see the patients, and I'm not a physician. As long as it is built well, or so that physicians can understand the purpose of Tzu Chi, let them with this wave of love to take care of the patients, not what I can do.
Yang Lan: The flooding in East China and many other disaster relief activities in various areas, but do you think this will be influenced by some political forces in Taiwan? For example, they will think, "Why put this money to the mainland?"
Venerable Cheng Yen: It's no wonder, but one has one's own clear direction, and also, as long as it's really about saving lives, many people are very responsive.
Yang Lan: So for some attacks like that you just completely ignore them.
Venerable Master Cheng Yen: Ignore them and don't do it, there must be this...our direction is very clear, we can't bear to see or hear about people who are really suffering. Not to mention that there are a lot of people in Taiwan who have this love.
Yanglan: Now that you're seeing the end of the century with all the strife, wars and bickering in various places, what do you think, do you think the world is going to be a better place?
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: Nowadays, science is also very advanced, people's ideals are quite high, and the standard of learning has been raised, and it's very common that everything is on the up and up. It is a pity that the morality of human nature is degenerating. How do we elevate the morality of human nature? This is something that we all really need to be attentive to in all corners of the world and in all walks of life.
Yanlan: You now feel that you have found the answer you were searching for when you were young, haven't you?
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: I should say yes. However, it is a long, long road, and it takes a very large group of people to blaze a path again.
Yanlan: Do you find it difficult to have moments of mental exhaustion?
Venerable Master Zhen Yan: There are times when I feel heartbroken, but I am doing my best, and I have full confidence in myself. When I say "confidence", I mean that I will not change this direction in this lifetime.
Yanlan: Thank you very much, and I wish you all the best in your endeavors.
Venerable Zheng Yan: Thank you
Yang Lan: Thank you.
According to the prophecy of Nostradamus, the day I interviewed Venerable Master Zhen Yan happened to be the end of the world, but the day is about to pass and nothing happened. What will happen tomorrow though? When I asked Venerable Cheng Yen this question, he said, "Instead of worrying about tomorrow, it is better to do more good things today. Besides, even if there is an end of the world, it only means the beginning of a new world".